Showing posts with label Bloodstock prices. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bloodstock prices. Show all posts

Thursday, 1 February 2018

“Money, Money, Money, it’s a Rich Man’s World” (And, Alas, a Poor Man’s): Moral Dilemmas of FOBTs and Bloodstock Sales


In last month’s blog I had a look at the prices vs. returns of NH horses at the Tattersalls’ Cheltenham Sale in May 2016. The total spend including purchasing the horses and then training them came out at £1,922,300. Yet they only went on to win five races in total, and the measly prize-money of £63,169, at an average per horse of £6,317. That gave a total return on investment (or as I like to refer to it, Return on Ownership) of a staggeringly dismal 3.2%.

This struck a chord with a number of blog readers who sent me similar examples, including Tattersalls’ Book 1, October 2015. I’m sure you can guess the record of the top 10 there as well. Many of you, I know, will shrug your shoulders and say that if rich people want to waste such prodigious amounts of money, that’s up to them. But before I list out those lots, why not just reflect on the moral dilemma that is now facing politicians and in turn British Racing over Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs).

The Department for Culture, Media & Sport launched a review 15 months ago in response to widespread concerns about the addictive nature of FOBTs. This culminated in a decision in October 2017 to cut the maximum stake from £100 to somewhere between £2 and £50. The Department then launched a 12-week consultation period which came to an end last month. The review also encompassed wider socially responsible measures to protect the vulnerable. This is definitely a case of a poor person’s world.

The Sunday Times led a scoop front page announcing that the Government was going to cut the FOBT stakes to a maximum of £2. Many of you, I know, will strongly agree with this. However it didn’t take long for the bookmaking industry and British Racing to examine the impact of a £2 maximum stake. Whether the figures are accurate or not I don’t know, but Martin Cruddace, boss of Arena Racing Company, caught the headlines when he forecast that an FOBT limit reduction would lead to 4,000 to 5,000 betting shop closures. Some took a more cautious view that maybe only 3,000 shops would close, but apparently the average shop pays £30,000 for media rights so the loss of income could easily be in excess of £90 million per annum with a view that, in turn, at least £55 million could be axed from prize-money.

Clearly, this is a very sobering story and it cannot be easy to deal with. Racing needs every pound that it can get its hands on, but surely not through the “crack cocaine” of FOBTs. A moral dilemma indeed.

In this context, the lunacy of bloodstock prices at sales such as Tattersalls almost appear like comic relief. Here are the top 10 from October 2015.

Lot 304, Dubawi – Loveisallyouneed. £2,205,000. Hasn’t raced, prize-money zero.

Lot 30, Galileo – A Z Warrior. £1,365,000. Named Key To My Heart. Won twice, prize-money £47,652.

Lot 43, Galileo – Alluring Park. £1,312,500. Named Douglas Macarthur. Won twice, prize-money £122,189.

Lot 255, Galileo – Jacqueline Quest. £1,260,000. Named World War. Won once, prize-money £26,068.

Lot 254, Oasis Dream – Izzy Top. £1,155,000. Named Dreamfield. Won twice, prize-money £12,291.

Lot 293, Galileo – Like A Dame. £1,050,000. Named Longing. Won once, prize-money £9,285.

Lot 71, Dubawi – Badee’a. £945,000. Hasn’t raced, prize-money zero.

Lot 204, Dark Angel – Folga. £866,250. Named Dirayah. Hasn’t won, prize-money £385.

Lot 439, Street Cry – Shastye. £840,000. Named Secret Soul. Hasn’t won, prize-money £,684.

Lot 107, Oasis Dream – Caphene. £787,500. Named Watchman. Hasn’t raced, prize-money zero.

Dear, oh dear. If we add a million or so for training fees and commissions, then the ROI / Return on Ownership is 1.72% on a total prize-money of £219,554. Indeed it must be even worse than the return on FOBTs, which says something.

Just to finish on a sobering note though the gross gambling yield, i.e. the amount kept by the betting shop operators after winnings are paid out, in the year to March 2017 was £1.39 billion from traditional betting ….. and a staggering £1.86 billion from FOBTs. It will be very surprising indeed if the Government doesn’t crack down hard on these machines and in turn, bookmakers ….. and I’m afraid, on racing’s income.



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Monday, 1 May 2017

The Bizarre World of Bloodstock Prices vs. Prize-Money for Grassroots Owners. Change is much needed.


Sometimes in British racing it can feel as though you are occupying a parallel universe. Whenever you go to the sales, you cannot help but be astounded by the enormous prices now being paid for bloodstock. So, for example, at the Tattersalls’ Cheltenham sale on 21st April, twelve lots sold for more than £100,000, five for £200,000 +, with an average price of £85,729 (up 89% on last year) and a median of £50,000 (up 25%). Last year, 34 lots sold for £1,546,000 while this year 35 went for £3,500,000. You can only agree with the auctioneers when they said it was “yet another remarkable sale”. But that was nothing compared with the Craven Breeze-Up sale which I also went to earlier that week at Newmarket. Records were smashed in every direction, with the average being 144,082 guineas and a median of 110,000. Global demand has never been higher, and there seems to be no shortage of ultra-high net worth individuals prepared to pay these sums.

So when you step out of this rarefied level into another universe, i.e. that occupied by the grassroots owner, you can’t help but be startled by the paucity of prize-money. Earlier in April, trainers Richard Hannon and William Haggas aired their criticism, drawing on the example of pitiful prize-money at Windsor and Southwell. Hannon Jnr. struck the right chord, stating that prize-money is now “bordering on the outright disrespectful to racing professionals”. They intend to reduce their runners and withdraw support for tracks such as this.

That’s not to say that there isn’t substantial prize-money available at some meetings, as was seen at the Cheltenham Festival, Aintree Grand National meeting and the All-Weather Championships at Lingfield on Good Friday. The key problem though is that the prize-money as you come down through the ranks, particularly to Classes 5 and 6, becomes derisory.

Encouragingly the racing industry is well aware of this problem. When I went to the British Industry Road Show held at Cheltenham in early March, there was a reaffirmation of the four prime targets: 1,000 additional horses in training by 2020 + betting participation levels up 5% by 2018 + racecourse attendances to reach 7 million by 2020 + £120m extra income for the sport per annum by 2018. Even more encouraging is the latest news that the European Commission has finally given state-aid approval to the Government’s plans for levy reform. Betting operators who had previously evaded levy because they were based offshore must now contribute to British racing’s funding, from betting on the sport. All operators will have to pay 10% of their gross profits on betting on British racing and it is estimated that this will bring in £30-40 million plus per year, which can be reinvested into the sport.

While there is bound to be a fairly lengthy queue to get their hands on that additional income, Richard Wayman, the Chief Operating Officer of the BHA, at the Road Show demonstrated that he is fully aware of the serious problem at grassroots level. A figure of 26p in the £ cost recovery has been used for some time (i.e. owners on average lose 74p in the £), but in fact when you look at the lower end of the sport it drops to an even more pathetic 8p. In a persuasive presentation, Richard stated that it is vital to get more money into the hands of ordinary owners while also improving the raceday experience and simplifying the needlessly complex racing administration.

I’m hoping that a number of initiatives are pursued with real conviction once the additional levy funds start to flow:
  • Renegotiate the minimum values for low-end racing in Britain. £3,500 total prize-money for a race means that the winner of that race doesn’t even cover their costs for a month. That has to be increased, and will give more return to owners in Class 5 / Class 6 races.
  • Redirect prize-money away from top Group / Graded races and improve the return at Class 3 and below.
  • Do the same for races where there is a huge gap between win prize-money and 2nd and 3rd places. Raise the money considerably for those in the frame.
  • Monitor what race tracks are actually doing, and penalise those that run a meeting with races only at the minimum values. Be similarly strict with tracks that have one valuable race, but at the expense of their lesser races.
  • Set a clear goal for increasing cost recovery by the average grassroots owner by 2020. This should be a clear objective for both the BHA and the Racecourse Association.
Finally Philip Freedman, the much-admired Chair of the Horsemen’s Group, has emphasised that the decline in owners since 2007 has actually been greater than the decline in horses in training. The huge risk is that new owners don’t come into the sport in the numbers needed, and equally that existing owners exit or reduce their involvement. It is definitely time now for major change …. and hopefully levy reform will provide the funds. Grassroots prize-money should become the #1 focus of attention for the BHA and the other bodies in the Tripartite Agreement. Without that, the base of the pyramid will crumble, with very serious consequences.



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Sunday, 2 April 2017

Form, Facts, Feelings and Formulations about the Festival – Reflections on Cheltenham


How was the Cheltenham Festival for you? Personally I found it the best ever from a pure enjoyment standpoint, even though it takes its toll – particularly on the liver. It has definitely been a case of recovery and detox over the last few weeks ahead of going up to Aintree for more fabulous fun on Merseyside. Hardly surprising, as it is the NH Olympics, there was an enormous amount of views shared and arguments raging throughout the Festival week. As ever in racing, mostly clap-trap, but here are ten reflections.
  1. It certainly wasn’t the highest standard of Festival that we’ve seen. The general view was that both the Champion Hurdle and the Gold Cup were 10lbs below normal, and there weren’t that many races that were truly memorable. For me personally, the highlight was one of my favourite horses, Defi Du Seuil, winning the Triumph Hurdle for Philip Hobbs and Richard Johnson. Such a hardy, game horse. Indeed I think Philip would run him every fortnight if he could. The best race to watch, I thought, was the Mares’ Championship with Apple’s Jade, Vroom Vroom Mag and Limini battling it out. Great to see Noel Fehily showing again what a champion he is, winning the top race on each of the first two days.
  2. Definitely the best ever for the Irish, who are now dominant. The somewhat meaningless Prestbury Cup was a shoo-in for the Irish, with 19 vs. 9. Willie Mullins won over £750k and Gordon Elliott over £600k. The late 1980s seem more than a couple of decades ago, when it was a complete whitewash to the British on one occasion, and another year 17/1. The key question is why GB is falling behind.
  3. Bloodstock prices continue to spiral into the stratosphere. I went along to the Tattersalls Ireland sale during the meeting and was flabbergasted to see 13 horses go for £100k plus, with a median of £120k and an average of £142,857. As the auctioneer said, “There is now fierce demand and a ferocious appetite for young horses with form.” You can say that again. The grass-roots owner clearly isn’t going to get a look-in.
  4. The declining state of UK National Hunt racing. There was a working party to look at the decline in Northern NH racing, and maybe their remit should be broadened to the whole of the country. Yes, there is superb prize-money available at Cheltenham but it is lousy almost everywhere else. There is an interesting statistic to confirm that: the difference in prize-money between the top and everyday racing in many countries is four times, whereas in the UK it is now 100 times. Horses always follow the prize-money, and it is hardly surprising that top owners are migrating to Ireland where they can scoop up easy pickings in Graded races and easy handicaps.
  5. The gap between the top and the bottom of the sport has never been greater. This really reiterates points 2-4 above. Is it time to change some of the rules and conditions for races to encourage the grass-roots owner? I did an analysis for the Racehorse Syndicates Association and amazingly there were only 40 syndicate horses at the Festival, even though there were quite a few partnerships. Many of us are now fishing in a different pond.
  6. Was the drink crack-down worthwhile, and did it work? After the excesses of 2016 with some very unsavoury incidents, Cheltenham and the Jockey Club clearly needed to do something. It seems to have worked, although most people wouldn’t get many problems getting round the four-drinks-per-buyer rule. I saw lots of people buying four for themselves! There was also a crack-down in the town centre with on-the-spot fines. Sad, but necessary.
  7. Rumblings about the bookmakers. There were no sympathies for the bookies, as they won on almost every race and there were numerous Festival flops, notably Douvan at 2/9, reportedly the shortest loser in a hundred years. There was more misery with Yanworth, Tombstone, Death Duty, Unowhatimeanharry and Djakadam. However it is rumoured that the BHA had a meeting with the Association of British Bookmakers, who want help in a rearguard action against imminent changes to do with fixed-odds betting terminals. I have zero sympathy with the bookmaking industry, who need to focus far more on innovation and collaboration with their racing partners.
  8. Well done, ITV with their terrestrial coverage. Encouragingly for the whole sport, they lifted the viewing figures by 250,000, massively ahead of Channel 4’s last effort of 526,000 average viewers. It’s a lighter style and seems to be far more appealing to the general audience. A good start has been made by them.
  9. Time to crack down on abuse of the whip again. Charlie Longsdon was desperately unlucky that his horse Pendra was collared in the final strides of the Kim Muir by Gina Andrews on 40/1 shot Domesday Book. She mercilessly flogged her horse, and rightly received a three-day ban for it. It seems really unfair that a rider who stays within the rules is beaten by one who doesn’t. Stewards should be given discretion to reverse the placings and behaviour would soon change, particularly if the culprits had to make a financial contribution to the owner for lost prize-money.
  10. And possibly some other changes are needed. We are in an era now when top horses, owners and trainers can cherry-pick valuable Graded races and avoid all meaningful competition. This doesn’t do much for competitiveness, nor public interest. Should there be some qualifications added whereby horses for championship races must have competed in a minimum number of Graded races prior to the Festival? With the grass-roots owner not getting much of a look-in, should race conditions be framed to encourage them? So for example should there be more caps on second-tier races to force top owners to take their best horses up into the championship races? I would also have a syndicates-only race, but then I have been arguing for that for quite a few years.
Hopefully some food for thought there. Bring on Aintree!



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Tuesday, 15 December 2015

Cheltenham – Owners, Trainers and their CLANS (Charmingly Large, Active Networks of Supporters)


The racing village is in many ways a huge network of multiple constituencies of enthusiasts, whether they be racegoers, punters, socialisers, pundits, owners or trainers. Cheltenham Racecourse is an ever powerful magnet which draws all this network together, even at one of its lesser meetings such as last weekend’s International, where the crowd is probably a third of that seen at the Paddy Power and the Festival. However, the OfO network had a great time, not least because of the excellent performances by three of our trainers, Martin Keighley, Philip Hobbs and Anthony Honeyball.

One of the most pleasant aspects of being an owner is the way in which you are automatically drawn in to the race-going CLAN, and that was definitely in evidence over the Friday and Saturday of the meeting. Martin and Belinda Keighley always receive a heartwarmingly enthusiastic reception from the crowd, and none more so after they experienced the highs but also terrible lows of racing on the first day. Their horse Hayjack, owned by James Hayman-Joyce whose son Simon is involved in one of our horses, Thady Quil, fell at the fence in the home straight and, alas, lost his life. One race later, Solstice Star put in an exuberant performance, bagging a four-timer and triggering the release of all sorts of emotions. I was in the paddock with another of our owners, Paul Davis, and we immediately gave Belinda a huge hug as the terrible low turned into a huge high. What we didn’t know was that it was captured on Channel 4 Racing and texts quickly followed asking us whose partner (other than our own) we were hugging. Fortunately my wife, when she was a lawyer, specialised in crime rather than divorce! We were then swept along by all the owners into the winners’ circle and on for champagne afterwards. The CLAN was definitely in action.

On the second day, Philip Hobbs’ wonderful season continued with a superb training performance to have the first and second in the top race of the meeting, the Caspian Caviar Gold Cup. Dickie Johnson managed to diet down to 10st for the ride on Village Vic, who ran the field ragged. That also included our own horse, Shantou Magic, who just couldn’t go the pace that Village Vic set, and our jockey, Will Kennedy, did the right thing and looked after him on ground that was softer than he really likes. He is now going off for a bit of R&R with Claire Hart, and won’t run again until the spring. Claire and her point-to-point connections are another part of the CLAN, and it is lovely that several of our owners who have now met Claire are hacking out with her and, indeed, one of them is setting a goal of taking part in a point-to-point. This owner had also linked up with another keen supporter of Owners for Owners, Tim Dykes, and their horse, Cappielow Park, ran in the same race as Solstice Star.

Peace & Co, for Nicky Henderson, ran far too keenly and his Champion Hurdle ambitions are on hold for a while. It was interesting, though, that the winner of the International Hurdle, Old Guard, is also owned by a CLAN, as a number of Paul Nicholls’ biggest owners have joined forces to buy top horses together. Looking at the recent autumn yearling sales on the Flat, that is also becoming an increasingly important CLAN, with mega buyers worldwide working together to pick up the choicest bloodstock, even though at eye-wateringly high prices. At a slightly lesser level on price (but still far too high), the Tattersalls NH Sale was held on Friday night and again it was strongly evident how the network of agents and top owners are working together to concentrate the firepower of best horses into a small number of rich men’s hands. Good for certain owners and trainers, but demotivating for others.

Finally in the last race of the meeting, Anthony Honeyball had his first ever Cheltenham winner, landing a three-timer with the game mare Lily Waugh. This was a valuable race, and tees her up now for a chance in the Mares’ Hurdle at the Festival. The win also put a huge amount of value on to her. A number of our owners are actively involved in Anthony’s yard and we were delighted to be with Lily Waugh’s fan club, both at lunchtime in the Tattersalls Pavillion and before / after the race. You couldn’t help but laugh at grown men praying on the paddock turf for a great performance from their mare …. which is exactly what they got. This CLAN of owners really entered into the spirit of having a runner and a winner at Cheltenham. Heart-warming!


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Saturday, 15 November 2014

The Long and the Short and the Tall: Reflections on the Autumn Buying Campaign


Probably the biggest change since we set up Owners for Owners 2½ years ago has been the resurgence in bloodstock prices, particularly on the Flat, but increasingly for National Hunt as well. When we started the average for us was c.£30,000 per horse, whereas now it is climbing nearer to £50,000. It has also meant that from a standing start we have nearly half a million pounds’ worth of bloodstock and there is over £¼ million a year going through the books in training fees, entries and all the miscellaneous costs that make owning such an expensive business. Thank goodness we have a great bunch of committed owners to spread the risk and share the enjoyment.

We’re almost through the Autumn buying period, with one more NH horse to find for Martin Keighley. Then as we go into 2015 the plan is to stop buying for a while and run the current stock of horses through their various campaigns, be it Flat, hurdling or chasing. We’ve also found that the whole process of organising and administering the partnerships, as well as going to see them race, is quite a bit more time-consuming than we expected, which is why we’ll cap the number of horses in training at any one time at 12.

Another very interesting learning over the last year or so has been the way in which certain agents work well for Owners for Owners, whereas others, for all sorts of reasons, don’t. Increasingly in National Hunt we’re now using Gerry Hogan and also last week, Aiden Murphy at the Tattersalls sale in Ireland, described as “the world’s most comprehensive NH sale”, which had 1,492 horses, mainly foals, listed in the catalogue. We ended up buying two bay colt foals – Lot 735, a Sholokhov who will go to Aiden’s stud near Stratford-upon-Avon, and Lot 920, by Oscar, who will stay at a farm in Tipperary near Gerry, until ready to come into training. This is the first time we’ve ever bought foals, and we’ve invested in them because the price of three-year-old store horses and ready-to-race jumpers is climbing incredibly rapidly. In effect we have bought two for the price of one, even when adding in the cost of keep. We’ve bought them to race, not primarily for pinhooking, although obviously we’ll keep an eye on both their development and their value as we go through the next couple of years.

We don’t always buy through agents, and indeed Rachael Green was also looking for a yearling, and she and Anthony Honeyball will continue their search for a youngster, which when bought will go to them. Equally on the Flat the whole of the Burke family have an excellent eye for a horse and to go to the sales with them is like participating in a master class on buying (and rejecting) Flat horses. The most pleasing common denominator is the way in which all these people have Owners for Owners’ best interests at heart. They won’t let us over-pay and are quick to reject unsuitable horses. Since the initial buying decision is probably the most important decision any owner makes, it is fantastic to have all this expertise on our side.

So it only seems fitting to introduce some photos of current youngsters. As you’ll see there is one of the mighty Lord Ben Stack who we bought at Arqana, Deauville last Autumn to race on the Flat with Karl Burke. We’re hoping he will come out in the Dante next Spring and we can plan a campaign from then onwards. Amusingly, all our jumps trainers have already said how much they would love to have him! Then at this year’s Arqana sale we bought a lovely Medicean from a superb dam line for the knock-down price of €40,000. He is a great example of finding value at the sales because he went into the ring with an abscess on his near fore which inhibited bidding. Karl and another of our contacts, Lars Kelp, felt that this was relatively minor and could be easily treated, which is turning out to be the case. He is a tall horse and like many Mediceans will need time. As you can see, he has just started the breaking process and is learning the ropes at Middleham. Finally there is an endearing picture of the baby of the trio, the foal colt by Oscar. You can now see why I headed this blog, “The Long and the Short and the Tall”. We wish all three of them the very best over future Flat seasons.




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Saturday, 1 November 2014

Bloodstock Prices on the Flat Still Climbing: Ordinary Owners Have to Work Harder!



Despite the real economies around the globe still being in post-recessionary deficit reduction modes, there is little evidence of that in the rarefied world of global bloodstock, particularly on the Flat but increasingly in NH as well. Regular readers of the blog will know that several of us connected to Owners for Owners have been trawling through the sales catalogues over the autumn, trying to find a well-bred and racy filly. Indeed, Tim Dykes and I have probably looked at 500 fillies ….. and amazingly haven’t bought one, for the simple reason that the well-bred ones didn’t impress as racehorses but the ones that did were not bred in the purple, or at least within our budget. Reluctantly we’ve come to the conclusion that to find both criteria fully met we would have at least to double our budget, to over £150,000. So we have postponed this hunt until there is a softening of the market.

For a graphic illustration of this, here is a summary of the average and median prices from the Goffs’ Orby and Tattersalls’ Book 1 sales:

Sale Year Average Median
Tattersalls’ Book 1> 2014 235,935 gns 150,000 gns
2013 207,501 gns 130,000 gns
2012 162,825 gns 100,000 gns
Goffs’ Orby 2014> €109,234 €70,000
2013 €101,571 €57,500
2012 €90,331 €58,000


As you can see, yearling prices have basically gone up by 50% during the time that Owners for Owners has been in existence. We surveyed our owners recently and there is no desire whatsoever to chase these sorts of prices. So the only way forward has been to work harder at the various sales, scrutinise more horses using the skills of trainers and agents, and on occasions take a bit of a risk in the purchase itself.

Our latest yearling purchase illustrates our approach. We swerved both Goffs and Tattersalls and went back to the Arqana Deauville sale on 20th October. This is the select day of that particular sale, and where we bought our 90+ rated horses, Lord Ben Stack and Jolievitesse, last year. Hopefully lightning struck again with the purchase of a beautiful Medicean yearling colt for the hammer price of €40,000 (£31,431). All the details and a video are on www.arqana.com And there will be further information about the partnership on the web site shortly. Karl and Elaine Burke bought him for us and both felt that if he had gone through Tattersalls’ Book 1 he could well have been double or even treble that. Indeed, when I checked, the average for a Medicean at that sale was £171k, and even in Book 2 it was £47k. Unfortunately for them the vendors, Haras de Bourgeauville, were unlucky because the colt developed an abscess on his foot shortly before the sale and they ran out of time in which to treat it properly. We took advice from Lars Kelp (who, as well as being a former trainer in Scandinavia, is a hoof expert) who felt that it should be relatively straightforward to treat, and it certainly won’t stop the horse being broken at Spigot Lodge. As a late April foal, we will need to be patient and give him all the time he needs to develop.

All the breeding of our horse shows real quality. Medicean was owned by Chieveley Park Stud and trained by Sir Michael Stoute, while the dam, Bellona, was owned by US owner / breeder George Strawbridge, and trained by Freddy Head. Medicean didn’t race at 2yo, but improved steadily from 3 to 4, winning the Celebration Mile, Lockinge, Queen Anne and Eclipse over 1m to 1m 2f. Notably game, he raced 12 times and was in the money on ten occasions. These qualities have been passed on to his progeny, of whom more than 10 have been Gr.1 winners, mostly over similar distances, including Neatico, Bayrir (Secretariat Stakes in Arlington), Capponi, Siyouma (Sun Chariot), Al Shemali, Almenta, Nannina (dual winner at Royal Ascot, Coronation Stakes and Windsor Forest), and then the speedier Dutch Art who was unbeaten as a 2yo, winning the Norfolk at Royal Ascot, the Prix Morny and the Middle Park.

On the dam side, Bellona won a Listed race and was placed in Gr.3s. Her winning daughter, Es Que, produced Dominant, who was sold by Highclere for over £1m to Hong Kong and went on to win the Gr.1 Hong Kong Vase, and Es Que Love, who is still in training with Clive Cox and won the Lennox at Glorious Goodwood this year. It really is a great dam line with black type all over the page, with one of the more recent ones, We Are, winning the 1m 2f Gr.1 Prix de l’Opera for fillies and mares on this year’s Arc day.

Sixth shares are available in this cracking colt, and if you want to view him at Spigot Lodge over the autumn, just let me know. 50% of the horse has already been taken!


I am always interested to hear your views so please do leave a comment. If you can't see the comment box at the bottom of this post then navigate to the post using the right hand navigation or click here > and scroll to the bottom of the page. Look forward to hearing your views. Thanks very much for sharing them.